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State of KDE 4.1 in Gentoo

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发表于 2008-9-30 09:55:23 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
Jan Kundrat (jkt)
State of KDE 4.1 in Gentoo

Dear lazyweb, it's been some time since KDE 4.1 was tagged. Gentoo, which used to be one of the most bleeding-edge distribution, has apparently failed to deliver this highly expected product to its mainstream users. We already have even a KDE developer complaining about what a miserable job we did. Well, I'm not going to deny the fact that the lack of KDE 4.1 in Portage probably doesn't make users happy, but let's see what the reasons are. Perhaps I can even persuade the P. T. reader that the statement "nothing happened in the Gentoo land" is false .

I should probably add a disclaimer that even though I'm a Gentoo developer and have a KDE SVN account as well, I don't maintain KDE packages in Gentoo, nor do I hack on core KDE code. My KDE role is limited to working on KPhotoAlbum.
The Package Manager

First of all, one has to admit that the package manager in Gentoo has had some long-standing issues which weren't exactly easy to solve. Due to the extremely wide set of options a user might have when installing a package (I'm talking USE flags here), testing all of these options is not a trivial task. Moreover, the possibility to depend on a package being built with some specific USE flag wasn't available until recently etc.

Preparing a package for a source-based distribution is not as easy as rolling out a binary package.

I won't go into much detail as it'd be probably pretty boring for an average reader, but a quick summary is that the KDE team went ahead and instead of keeping using the same hacks that were employed in kde-3 ebuilds, they drafted a new revision of EAPI, the standard that describes functions available to and the interaction among the ebuilds, the Gentoo packages (think about a .spec file for RPM). From user's point of view, and especially in the short term, there are no immediate benefits, and the big downside is that this whole process takes a lot of time. From a technical POV, though, this is the right decision, no doubts about it.

The way of creating a new EAPI is not that easy, though. As we're talking about a standard which is going to affect Gentoo as a whole, a lot of people want to make sure there are no obvious issues with the specification. One of the results is that there's usually some talk going on on the various mailing lists, one has to work closely with package manager authors to make sure that all the cool ideas are actually implementable etc. And note that one really can't use the new EAPI in the main Portage tree until it's approved. (The good thing is that it apparently got approved during the last Council meeting, which happened such a short time ago that we don't have a summary from it yet )
The Manpower

Yep, there were personal issues involved as well. Three members of the KDE team left Gentoo, others got pretty busy with Real Life™ and other projects of their own. While we are already seeing other people stepping up and helping the KDE team, the lack of manpower is certainly a problem. Gentoo, being a non-profit distribution and what not, can't afford having a paid developer working on KDE packages. I'm sure there are other (even source-based) distributions who aren't backed up by any company, either, but you should take this into consideration before you declare Gentoo as "dying".
The Code

So, if you've managed to read the whole mess up to this point, I guess you deserve a reward of some kind. So, what about a KDE 4.1 package? What? You thought that it is not available? Oh sure it is! It isn't in the main tree (remember, you can't use unapproved EAPI in the official tree), but available through an overlay and adding it is not really such a big problem. Please go on, read the instructions and enjoy KDE 4.1 on Gentoo!
发表于 2008-9-30 10:55:10 | 显示全部楼层
现在 Gentoo 的人力真是捉襟见肘。真是让人觉得很不是滋味。
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发表于 2008-9-30 12:06:51 | 显示全部楼层
只是kde
这是gentoo kde herd在portage vs paludis的斗争中的失败
他们大部分都用paludis
他们错误的估计了形势
现在的gentoo council member基本都对paludis无好感,甚至有人被paludis的人攻击过
gentoo kde herd曾经为kde 4设计并实践过一个paludis only的EAPI,kdebuild-1
可是这个EAPI没有被council批准
你看,多傻,明眼人不用看也知道这种EAPI根本不可能被批准
我想他们的积极性收到了打击
而且与此同时已经有人在写兼容portage的kde 4的ebuild,并建立了overlay,他们想回头也只能贡献别人的overlay

还有一个gentoo kde核心开发者因为一些不当言行被强制retire,也与paludis有关

paludis在gentoo里的发展是一个项目不应该怎样发展的典型例子
注意是不应该
应该高筑墙,广积粮,缓称王。一个新的,和已有项目有竞争关系的项目,不应该过早表露出要取旧项目而代之的意图。
应该善待每一个刚开始尝试的用户,特别是不能攻击别人。
我虽然有些时候语气硬了点,但我至少没有直接的对任何人说过“idiot”“****ing bastard”之类的话
得罪了别人迟早要还的
所以不要轻易得罪别人

如果你觉得我得罪了你,首先你想想你做的是否恰当,如果是,那么请你提醒我。我要向你说清楚,给你道歉,因为那绝不是我本意。
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发表于 2008-9-30 19:14:57 | 显示全部楼层
版主的头像很好~~
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发表于 2008-9-30 22:46:07 | 显示全部楼层
很好,很肌肉。。。


gentoo似乎是有一点缺人,不过本人还是菜鸟,爱莫能助啊。。。
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发表于 2008-9-30 23:34:09 | 显示全部楼层
“人品”决定命运...
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发表于 2008-10-1 09:21:42 | 显示全部楼层
Post by 亞利艾爾;1888787
现在 Gentoo 的人力真是捉襟见肘。真是让人觉得很不是滋味。


乃是说gentoo前景不妙吗?没有这么严重吧?:hanged:
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发表于 2008-10-1 16:09:33 | 显示全部楼层
如果你觉得我得罪了你,首先你想想你做的是否恰当,如果是,那么请你提醒我。我要向你说清楚,给你道歉,因为那绝不是我本意。


我过去是错了,我现在想改过,但是你却一直没有给我机会……

抗议!抗议!抗议!
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发表于 2008-10-2 10:31:55 | 显示全部楼层
说实话楼上的企鹅现在语气真的变了很多,而且对别人的态度也有了变化,那几次你做的很过分,但是后来大家对你什么也没说阿,大家现在相处的不是很融洽吗,大家没有给你机会吗?至少我现在知道你变好了。
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发表于 2008-10-2 11:00:37 | 显示全部楼层
别这么严肃,他在开玩笑
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